The public hearing of the parliamentary Ad Hoc Committee probing allegations made by KwaZulu-Natal police commissioner got off to a rocky start on Tuesday with former Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) head Robert McBride refusing to disclose his current employment.
This happened as McBride came under criticism for making gestures to MPs when giving testimony at the inquiry probing allegations made by KwaZulu-Natal police commissioner Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi.
Testifying before the Ad Hoc Committee, McBride initially did not disclose his current employment although he confirmed working in the intelligence services.
“I am not allowed to say what my employment is,” he said.
McBride also told evidence leader Advocate Norman Arendse that the CV he was using to lead the evidence was outdated.
This prompted ActionSA MP Dereleen James to raise her concern that they were told the CV was outdated.
“That means we have a falsified statement. We can’t continue as if it is acceptable,” James said.
MK Party MP David Skosana asked that McBride state where he was employed.
“It can’t be a secret,” Skosana said.
In response, McBride said he could do so if he was given permission by his principals.
“I raised this issue with the evidence leader. I thought it was taken care of. I think most people know where I work,” he said.
McBride also said he did not have a new CV and did not have legal assistance.
Asked by Ad Hoc Committee chairperson Soviet Lekganyane whether there was any law preventing him to disclose where he was currently employed, McBride mentioned Act 39 of 1994.
However, ANC MP Xola Nqola stated that McBride was not citing the legislation in a correct way.
“I don’t know why this information should be withheld. You can even Google where he is employed,” he said.
Nqola also urged McBride to stop making gestures when MPs were speaking.
“He is doing funny gestures of laughing when somebody is talking. If he wants us to have a good day, he must refrain from that,” he said.
When McBride wanted to respond, Lekganyane asked to be allowed to guide him “so that you know what you respond to”.
In backing Nqola, MK Party MP Sibonelo Nomvalo said the ANC MP was not hallucinating about the gestures.
“We made similar observations. We must maintain the decorum. We are not being funny. We are here to work as MPs,” said Nomvalo, adding that McBride was making funny reactions using his face when Nqola and James spoke.
Nomvalo charged that McBride submitted a wrong CV and that he needed no legal advice to prepare a correct CV.
“The excuse the witness is giving here is invalid. He only tells us now when it is picked up by one of the members. We were made to read a wrong document,” said Nomvalo.
“What the witness did must be condemned with the contempt it deserves. It is wrong,” he added.
McBride then told the Ad Hoc Committee the law that prevented him from disclosing his employment was the National Strategic Intelligence act of 1994 and indicated that the prohibition was in the regulations.
However, DA MP Ian Cameron mentioned that the Intelligence Services Act of 2002 made prohibition for purposes of confidentiality and identity.
James found it odd that McBride could not state his current employment when his appointment was announced as a director of the foreign branch at State Security Agency (SSA).
“Why could he not answer that simple question?” she asked.
In his response, McBride insisted that he volunteered indicating the CV was old and that nothing was falsified.
“I did not leave out anything when speaking to evidence leaders,” he said.
McBride later stated that the horse has already bolted, confirming his appointment as head of foreign branch of the SSA from July 2020.
“I indicated my dilemma to mention where I work,” he said.
But, EFF MP Leigh-Ann Mathys accused McBride of being indifferent and took issue with how he sat when he was giving evidence.
“He is giving us the same Mary de Haas vibes. Can we be taken seriously as a country,” Mathys said.
Lekganyane said it was not their intention to cast aspersions on McBride’s CV.
“As we engage, there are observations we make and will try to raise them with you in a manner reasonable to you so that when you leave you must feel part of this country,” he said.
“You must prove to us that you can be a credible witness before this committee. We request transparency from you. If you can be transparent without being naked, you are to help us,” he added.
Earlier, Lekganyane reprimanded McBride for arriving after the start time of the public hearing.
McBride explained that he had been waiting at the consultation room since 9am.
“My apology, I was expecting to be called and saw there was a discussion taking place,” he said.
